Odysseus Is a Bit Full of Shit
One of the things I noticed during the wanderings of Odysseus presentations is how prideful Odysseus is at times. Sometimes he's even too prideful, to the point where it only hurts him and everyone around him. By the time we reached book 13, it was no surprise to me that the Phaeacians got screwed over because that's just what happens to everyone Odysseus worked with on his journey. (Yes, the Phaeacians are different in this case, but that's beside the point.)
The standout instance of Odysseus's excessive pride is after he's stabbed Polyphemus in the eye and feels a desperate need to reveal his real name. His men beg him to just shut up and leave quickly, but Odysseus taunts Polyphemus and reveals his true identity, therefore causing his entire return journey to be cursed by Poseidon. During his wanderings, his prideful nature doesn't necessarily fade at all: in book 10, Hermes helps him not fall prey to Circe's potion, but he still claims that he was the clever one who came up with the method for escaping it. In book 11, he humble brags about all the famous people he meets. In book 12, he blames his men for all the problems/obstacles they run into during their travels, despite the fact that he basically knocked over the first domino in their series of misfortunes. In book 14, he has to lie about who he is to Eumaeus, but he intentionally makes his story elaborately lift him up into a good heroic light.
On the other hand, his son Telemachus is arguably a meek person -- certainly not as prideful as his father. He definitely doesn't present himself nearly as well as Odysseus presents himself: the first time he tries to speak firmly to a group of people, he ends up crying. It's an interesting contrast between the two that probably would have ended up differently if Odysseus hadn't been gone for Telemachus's entire childhood.
Without a father figure, Telemachus was raised lacking a classic masculine presence in his life. No one really taught him how to stand up for himself and be as prideful as most men are. He's spent his entire life watching men walk all over him and his mother. Because Odysseus never returned, there was no glory brought upon his family: in fact, shame was practically brought upon the family. If Odysseus had returned, Telemachus would have been raised in a household where he was taught that his father was completely and undeniably heroic and successful. The blemish in his father's story creates a dent in how Telemachus sees his family.
But what's interesting is how Telemachus and Odysseus seem to be traveling down a path toward each other to meet in the middle of the spectrum from prideful to meek. We've seen how Odysseus was taught to be a little more humble during his wanderings, and we've seen that Telemachus is being coached in his own mini hero's journey. Odysseus is being forced to lower his status and not tell anyone who he really is: he is now a nobody, a disheveled old man with no famous heroic story, and to add salt to the wound, he's right near the one population of people he would want to hear his story. In contrast, Telemachus is being shoved into the role of hero to go find his father, inevitably facing a battle with the suitors at some point.
However, while both situations are meant to make their respective recipients into better people, Odysseus's is because he's more of a bad person and Telemachus's is because he lacks something important for his masculinity. It's fairly obvious that Odysseus's pride is his downfall too often to be healthy, and it's logical that his situation is meant to fix that. But Telemachus isn't necessarily hurting anyone with his meek personality. It's implied that Telemachus was raised poorly, as he can't handle himself in front of the suitors, acting more like a child than his actual age. He lacks something that every other man in the vicinity possesses: pride and a strong attitude. Without that, he isn't really a man.
I'm questioning what you said about Odysseus being taught humility. Even though his pride is much of the source of his problems, I see no signs of his pride tapering off, and I also don't see any pressure for him to become less prideful. First off, he is a huge celebrity, making even Athena wide-eyed when she presents herself to him, and she gives him a very long compliment. In being turned in to an old man, Odysseus is still not losing his pride; just as he did with Polyphemus, he will likely start bragging again as soon as he sees an opportunity.
ReplyDeleteThe idea that Telemachus and Odysseus are meeting in the middle is really interesting. I never thought about it that way. It was definitely clear to me that Telemachus was gaining his self-confidence and Odysseus seemed to be becoming more humble, but I never connected the two. Great job!
ReplyDeleteAhh, pride. The source of great joy and smiles a good amount of the time, but also the source of many problems, for Odysseus in particular. If he could have held back and not give in to his pride and desire to gloat, he could've saved him and his crew from a lot of suffering and lost time. Many things are like this; great if done in moderation. But just like medicine that's meant to heal ailments, taking too much can be harmful to your health and even deadly.
ReplyDeleteRegarding Odysseus learning humility during his journey, I think there's a bit of nuance there. Odysseus is famous for being clever, deceptive, tricky, or cautious. However, his early actions on the journey home don't really demonstrate that. I think that after the Trojan War, Odysseus (and the rest of the Greeks) got overconfident, and then brought tragedy upon himself. I think, therefore, that Odysseus' suffering brings him back down to earth (mostly), and once again he is crafty, tricky, calculating, and tactful.
ReplyDeleteI see why you think Odysseus is a bad person, but I think it's important to keep the cultural context in line. Honestly, I'm not really sure whether or not Homer intends for us to view Odysseus as overly confident, or whether we're supposed to be on board with his whole hero shtick. In any case, I think we see Ody a lot less favorably than the ancient Greeks did. That's important because it'll impact the arc of the narrative later on- I wonder if Odysseus learning humility is going to be a plot point, rather than him reclaiming his rightful place. I definitely agree that Telemachus is going to get a lot manlier soon, though.
ReplyDeleteI think that the parallel between Odysseus and Telemachus is something that keeps slipping my mind, but this is a good point. We may have brought this up at the beginning when we were talking more about Telemachus, but there is a sense of irony in Telemachus being so unlike his father, yet because of his father's legacy he is expected to be more proud and brave like his father. I think your point about them meeting in the middle still fits well with their stories mirroring one another and I really like your point about how becoming more moderate is an improvement for both of them.
ReplyDeleteReally interesting ideas in this post. I really like the parallel that you drew because I hadn't really thought about it since we haven't seen much of Telemachus in a while. I like how you you see it as a way to make them both into better people. I'm not really sure if that's the right phrasing because I feel like for the time there isn't really anything too wrong with Odysseus. Nice post.
ReplyDeleteComparing Odysseus' and Telemachus' internal growth is really interesting, and I'd never really considered how they're basically becoming more like each other. Odysseus seems very self-centered, and to me Telemachus seems like more of a hero than his father.
ReplyDeleteIt's interesting to read this now after finishing the story and knowing the somewhat questionable choices that Telemachus makes that probably couldn't be classified as meek. I agree with you though that Odysseus has too much pride and I've definitely been annoyed reading about some of the things he does throughout The Odyssey.
ReplyDeleteI can definitely see how Odysseus and Telemachus are becoming more similar in their personalities. I think this is most clearly shown by the comparison of Odysseus hiding his identity (with Polyphemus, he couldn't help but brag, but in his own house, he's learned to keep his mouth shut until the opportune moment). However, both he and Telemachus still end up on the prideful side of the spectrum; maybe even to the point that if they were modern day heroes, we wouldn't like them; but since they're ancient greek male heroes from thousands of years ago, I can give them a pass on being a little full of themselves.
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